bickering? people are just expressing their opinions and there are plenty of NA platers who dont want it either

I agree with Devil on this one. TKK had been playing in this ladder for quite a few years up until this last season. The reason? Being assaulted, revenged, and hunted, not to mention seeing snipers dodging like their pants were on fire! That is NOT camping to us. Why do you think you have so few clans playing it anymore? Because many of the so called *camping* clans are wanting to play more like freestylers. So yes, this ladder most definately needs a no close kill mod. Actually it could use a couple of more besides.

I don't see how the "No Close Kill Mod" benefits the community of snipe and camp. In the past, their were hardly any mods except for the basics like spawn protection.

What I'm getting at is that Unreal back in the day was more controllable and more fun without mods, I'm sure some people can vouch my post.

In my opinion, the mods these days such as "No run mod" and "No Revenge mod" shows that there is no trust of players style of play anymore.

For those people who think that the "No Close Kill Mod" will result in proper camping, do you honesty think that's true? Sorry but you are wrong, I've seen run mods on servers but my experiences have seen run mods doesn't stop from players moving around huge parts of an area and assaulting someone. You'll still be able to make close kills dispite the mod being installed so there really is no point for it.

I wouldn't even consider this a camping community anymore with all these mods.

As for the referees, it's their job to make sure the game is played fair, understandable, but the mods shouldn't be helping them with this. If a referee doesn't see a player breaking a rule, that's their fault.

My answer is to remove the run mod.

But most of the clans that left went to the CWAT ladder because they were getting tired of over zealous refs and silly mods ruining the ladder. Why dont you just play the camping in the xtreme ladder as it has all these mods, there is supposed to be a bit of variety in these ladders, if you add all these mods you just have 2 CITE ladders

That's two not twenty, if we want to compare it to other ladders here.

I'm interpreting four things:

1. Players refuse to play this ladder because of the mod, they are simply not willing to even try it out.

2. Refs are doing their jobs and instead of challenging their call via support ticket like we're supposed to, we'll just quit the ladder and go play elsewhere, perhaps where rules aren't so enforced.

3. Too many teams left because of a lack of mods. Refuse to come back without mods in place. Quit because of "movement," "assault," type situations. This is a public CAMPING ladder right?

4. The refs aren't doing their jobs. Why should we use a mod to help them out? They should be perfect and vigorously making calls.

Please be clear, this is not my "opinion" but it is the "argument" going on here. We've heard plenty from both sides, can we quit with the ultimatums and try to agree somewhere in the middle?

Hi Marcie
Hope you dont think I am getting annoyed or bolshie about this, just stating my opinion on the mod which is what we were asked to do

so in answer to your points
1. I have tried playing on servers with this mod and found it spoiled the game completely for me and was abused by the opposite team

2. I didnt say i wouldnt play cos of refs. (I do find it funny however that I have been close assualted and close revenged in this ladder by refs/admins on occasion,thought surely they should be aware of the ladder rules). I support the people who make the effort to show up to ref. Just dont see how this mod helps them as they now have more calls to make on abuse of this mod

3. Teams left this ladder for both reasons

4. the refs are doing their job just a lot of inconsistency.

I am not in any way giving an ultimatum. I have said I wont come back to the ladder with this mod on not I wont come back to this ladder UNLESS this mod is removed. If the vote says yes, then i will accept that. I dont speak for EST on this, they will all have their own opinions

Hello Stuart,

Of course not, I think you're awesome and you've made very valid points and I certainly appreciate any and all feedback pertaining to this topic. I think in the end we're simply trying to answer two questions:

1. How do we keep the remaining teams?
2. How do we get some of the old teams back?

I so look forward to the matches every weekend and am thankful for the teams still competing. It is a lot of fun playing, observing and participating on this ladder. So there you have it, in all honesty, we just want to see this ladder thrive again.

Again we thank everybody for their time, input, and participation.

Well, I am not sure, there are other ladders now, like the CWAT which is a bit more relaxed rules and the CITE ladder which is much more restrictive, Personally feel this ladder should remain somewhere in the middle to give teams some choice.

That's precisely what we are trying to do. I agree with the statement that the mod can be used as a shield/weapon. I've seen it done before on other ladders using the same mod. A guy sitting somewhere on a map where there was no chance to frag or be fragged. I happen to see him, try to kill him, and can't. Does he move? Ever? Nope... That was the purpose of cutting the affective range down to such a short distance. It can't really be used as a shield but at the same time, it prevents someone from literally dropping down right on top of you and killing you in an assault attempt.

I've been playing since 2001 and I remember how camping used to be where there was no mods and everyone was expected to play with 'honor' by following the rules. Unfortunately, I also remember ALOT of fighting, too. Like every other map, someone was screaming about spawn-killing and a assault. In regular game-play, that can be tolerated to a point but, if we are too compete in this gametype, we must have these mods so that there is a definitive guideline as to when someone breaks the rules.

The SID is extremely relaxed. It's no secret you can trans around the entire map continuously for the duration of the map without penalty until you either crater, get killed while on the move, or switch to the rifle too soon. That isn't tight at all. The other ladder has the mod that starts knocking health off if you fart too soon.

In closing, how many of you honestly think that a No Close Kill mod set for 12 feet is actually going to hurt your style considering the other ladder is 50 feet? Show us by voting accordingly.

~Johnny Jones

[quote="[FuN]Draco{CwB The other ladder has the mod that starts knocking health off if you fart too soon.

Got to go along with Draco on the pharting.

Let the Extreme Ladder have all the mods and controls, and only restrict the US/Euro ladder to as few mods as possible including this very close range kill mod.

All we (and the refs) can hope for is that any abuse is kept to a minimum. Impossible to eliminate completely. Those very few players that continue to push the envelope in violation of the rules or in violation of the spirit of the rules should be removed from tourney play

why keep adding more and more mods? the ability to kill someone who runs into your spot or fight for the best spots is a key part of the game.

why keep adding mods that can a) slow a server down and b) reduce the skill level needed to compete?

this mod wont change players' behaviour, it will potentially cause greater lag and frustrate the oldest players who remember what this game was like when fun and skill were the key parts of the game.